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In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 06, 2012 9:15 pm

davefrombc wrote:I actually don't see the obsession with crisp pickles

Blasphemy. I'll work on shriveled pickle problems first, then perfect the taste.

The pickle gremlin isn't happy with you right now, Dave. Better sleep with one eye open tonight.
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby davefrombc » Jul 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Poooooooooooooor Marc , with his shriveled limp pickle with 7 warts per inch... Maybe that's the problem . .Check those cukes.. maybe not enough warts.. That 2" dilly should have 14 warts.
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby B_BQ » Jul 06, 2012 10:41 pm

Dumbo wrote:Did you process it for 15-minutes?


Yes!

Sorry Dave, but we like very firm pickles! lol

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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 06, 2012 11:44 pm

B_BQ wrote:Sorry Dave, but we like very firm pickles!


You go girl!
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby maryjanej » Jul 07, 2012 1:30 am

Yes I suppose your right about the farmer's market they probably aren't freshly picked. So I guess you can rule that out.

I think the problem is they're getting overcooked in the jars, You mentioned the water was boiling in the jars after you were done? I don't remember seeing mine boiling in the jars the jars were hot but not boiling.

It must be pretty frustrating.

I hope it works out for you, Good Luck.

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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 07, 2012 2:14 am

I wasn't too sure about this, but I did see some gassing from the bottom of a pickle in one of the jars, which to me is the start of a boil.

Did you know Vlasic puts very tiny holes in their pickles to prevent shrinkage?

Here is one of their patents:

Vlasic pickles:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4547389.html

9 (b) providing whole pickle stock without any significant prior sweetening treatment, the outer membrane of said pickle stock being sufficiently perforated so that the osmotic pressure generated by covering said pickle stock with said syrup will not cause significant shrinkage of said pickle stock;

and

The pickle stock employed is whole (e.g.. not sliced or chopped). Because the membrane of the pickle stock remains substantially unbroken, applicant has found that it is critical to perforate the membrane to prevent damage to the pickle stock due to the osmotic pressure. It is to be understood that by perforation is meant the making of small diameter holes in the outer membrane. Preferably, the holes are not generally detectable by casual inspection with the naked eye. These perforations can be made by any method known to those of skill in the art. A relatively simple (and thus preferred) method of perforating the outer membrane in pricking the outer membrane with a needle. Commercially available pricking panels are particularly suited for large scale pricking of pickle stock. The length of the panels employed and the gauge of the needles on the panels can be readily determined by those of skill in the art.

The degree of perforation required can vary depending upon the pickle stock employed and the exact concentration of the sucrose in the acidified syrup. It is only necessary that the membrane be sufficiently perforated so that the osmotic pressure generated by the high concentration of sucrose in the syrup does not cause significant shrinkage. Significant shrinkage will irreversibly damage the pickle stock and make it undesirable to consumers. Significant shrinkage is typically about a 10% or more irreversible reduction in volume after about one month of storage. Preferably, the irreversible shrinkage is no more than about 5% by volume.


and goes on to state more.

They use a pickle-prickler to put tiny holes invisible to the naked eye in their pickles! How about that... hmmm
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby davefrombc » Jul 07, 2012 3:13 am

This for some sort of sweet mix pickle though .. I haven't known of sugar (sucrose) used in making dill pickles. Yuck, Ptoooey to sweet pickles.
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 07, 2012 4:09 am

Yeah Vlasic are sweet. Stated that in the great pickle taste test. Now we know for sure that they are. They state so in the patent. Never knew they used corn syrup though. Don't think that is on the label. Will have to double check.

Many "bread and butter" type pickles are also sweet. Well at least in my book they are. Never made this. Wife wants to try it.

However, I have read that the principle is the same for the salt/acid ones. Thus the reason why they state to slice an end off on the flower side, or take a thin slice on both ends. Same reason.

Also, some sites (no gov or edu site that I recall) state something about an enzyme on the flower end causing problems and that is the reason a thin slice should be taken off from there. I can't confirm this anywhere reputable though (yet, or that I recall). Nor does anyone I know do this, yet their pickles are great!

So this "slice" thing... meh I did this already last year and it failed. But I'll try again just to say I did.
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 07, 2012 12:40 pm

So I did 4 jars.

1x 3-day old pickle w/ ice bath for 12-hrs + calcium chloride + cut on flower end
1x 2-day old pickle w/ ice bath for 5-hrs + calcium chloride + cut on flower end
1x picked 45-minutes before canning (tossing in an ice bath for those 45-minutes) + calcium chloride + cut on flower end
and
1x bread and pickle (Bernardin recipe) so doesn't count. But I noticed this boiled in the jar for the time called for (ie. 15-minutes). Lots of gassing on the sliced pickle surface. Don't know if this is normal.

All in distilled water. Brought to 100C via a slow boil and left simmering at 100C (not on high type thing and vigorous).

They shrank. By how much? Time will tell. Will know by tonight as they tend to shrink with time. But does look a bit less and not as severe. But will see tonight.

So to hell with Bernardin. On to Ron's recipe next time. Ron uses a stronger acid. Ratio 1:1.5 instead of 1:2
Let's see if this makes a difference.

Can it be the pickle? Can this Eureka pickle really suck for doing pickles?
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Re: In Need of a GREAT Pickle Recipe

Postby Dumbo » Jul 08, 2012 4:08 am

The results from the test above. All shriveled and floated to the top. leaving about a 30% jar space after tightly packed.

But, there is a difference in one jar, The jar that was 3 days old (above I mentioned I cut the flower end, this was a typo, I cut both ends on this one). Although they did shrink. They shrank less than all the others (ballpark 10% as a whole) than the other ones. In addition to this, these ones are not floating to the top and are instead down at the bottom of the jar, unlike the others.

So, I'm leaning on this osmotic pressure thing mentioned in the Vlasic patent.

Next test will be the following Wednesday, about.

Next test:
-Boil water at 85 for canning for 30-minutes. *Not* 100C for 15-min. Not sure if I'll die from food poisoning.
-Prick the skin instead of cutting both ends (ie. what Vlasic does). Just have to come up with a jig of some sort with some pacified stainless steel needles at a proper height to push the pickle down on before tossing them in the jar. Just need the skin pierced. So around an 1/8 of an inch.

If this fails, I will embrace the limp and shriveled pickle.
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