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OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby Dumbo » May 17, 2012 9:14 pm

Well, OGrubber, I tried to convert your PPM values to lb/acre and it just doesn't work out. Doesn't work out to the ranges and what the ranges mean relative to that Rutgers PDF, that is.

My test was performed by the Mehlich-3 method. I am going to take a big stab in the dark here and say maybe your tests were done by a different method?

Why I say this is because if I use your values, then look at the analysts recommendations, you wouldn't be adding what he stated. Nor would he state it (or shouldn't).

Does not compute.

I was reading that different methods used will give different values, and "Conversion of test results from one method to another should not be done", page 4, http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfer ... _22_99.pdf, smallest PDF I could find)

Or even better, http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/cro ... 97-005.htm
However, because the Mehlich 3 is not as good as NaHC03 for phosphorus, it has not been introduced into the Ontario soil testing program.

Example:
The Mehlich-3 extraction for P that gives a result of 40 PPM can give higher or lower results for a different test used. For a diff method you can have 20ppm or 50ppm. Conversion doesn't really work. It's a best guess.

Does your analysis state what method was used? If they are the same method then maybe i'm over-tired of reading all this and I'll try again tomorrow. But I get the feeling it's different.
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby Dumbo » May 17, 2012 9:31 pm

kelly_m wrote:I'm with Dave on this one....You've pretty much created a mountain out of a molehill.

Mountains are meant to be climbed. Besides, this isn't a mountain. Just a small learning curve.

kelly_m wrote:It's topsoil...organic matter in it could be manure, compost or it could just bits of stick.

It could also be sewer sludge. That's why I wanted it tested. The Salinity test would have come out higher, much higher if it was sludge. This eliminated this funny little Canadian human-extracta thing from the equation, and my mind.

Now when Eeyore comes over for coffee she can in good faith know my carrots don't have human poop or strange pathogens and contaminants on them.

kelly_m wrote:Most plants will grow in general everyday topsoil. amending with compost or fertilizer will of course help.

Yup. But I want better.

kelly_m wrote:but I'm thinking you'll spend more time researching this than planting.....

Planting? DOH!
*Runs out and buys some carrots from Sam's guano dump for Eeyore* :oops:

Nah, just a learning curve. It's all figured out, mostly. Just took 1/2 a day of reading to do it.

See now you know more too. When you work your way up to sales in your new job you now know more than the average Joe, and will be able to sell more since you have a better grasp, and you will get a performance raise so that you have enough for my expensive tastes in Xmas presents.

Buying a bag of dirt and dumping it is so... blah. Doesn't anyone crave understanding or the best possible?

EDIT:
Or you can write a fake book on growing stuff in the dead of winter at -30C and make even more money. ;)
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby kelly_m » May 17, 2012 10:08 pm

LOL!

Well...I don't mean to belittle your ken for learning! Really.

Just basics will be needed for my job....check your soil....if its crap add crap. If you got weeds, get rid of them.

if your plant that thrives in the sun is planted in the shade..move it. LOL


I get that you want more. 8)

And I guess I wouldn't want to be eating carrots made from sludge or slurry....Not that you invited me or anything...

But more could also mean checking out what your plant needs to grow optimumly. And I would seriously look into companion planting if i was you....for veggies.

But careful. Some plants will thrive in poor soil, and not in well treated nutrient rich soils. Some just don't give a damn.


Great thing about gardening...it keeps you on your toes!!! Agriculture is very scientific...that's what you are leading towards. Gardening is less so.

And like I said....your weeds will grow just as much as your neighbours....maybe even bigger!
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby Dumbo » May 17, 2012 10:28 pm

kelly_m wrote:Agriculture is very scientific...that's what you are leading towards. Gardening is less so.

Gardening is the hand-me-downs of agriculture. You can either listen to reason, or (I'll be blunt here) like that Canadian gardening article referenced when I first came on here, listen to old wives tales and put a dash of cinnamon on your plants. But only do this once! Then watch your soil turn green with mold (what this is supposed to prevent) :roll:

There is so much science in gardening it takes me for a spin every day. Some just chose to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. Some will only use old wives tales and other voodoo, some will look at the science of how and why.

I'm in the later group of people.

My weeds will feed the bees better than your weeds. And my happy bees will do a better job. And when they sting me, it will hurt more than yours. So there. Take that.

Of course everything could drop dead in the garden...

kelly_m wrote:Not that you invited me or anything...

Well. since you have an employee discount now...
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby davefrombc » May 17, 2012 11:06 pm

kelly_m wrote:Great thing about gardening...it keeps you on your toes!!!


I think it keeps you on your knees more.
I'm more inclined to look at the soil , add manure/peat/ compost until it looks good and the weeds grow like crazy..I keep picturing Marc out in the garden adding his secret formula to get nutrients just right and suddenly there's this little mushroom cloud.. :lol:
Hydroponics are a science and require the white smocked crowd mumbling strange formulas, but gardening is supposed to be relaxing , back to nature type of thing , with all sorts of incantations, moon charts, and soothing music to calm the snap dragons and tiger lilies Nekkid rituals in the moonlight are optional , usually near harvest time .
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby OGrubber » May 18, 2012 1:33 am

Dumbo wrote:Well, OGrubber, I tried to convert your PPM values to lb/acre and it just doesn't work out. Doesn't work out to the ranges and what the ranges mean relative to that Rutgers PDF, that is.

My test was performed by the Mehlich-3 method. I am going to take a big stab in the dark here and say maybe your tests were done by a different method?

Why I say this is because if I use your values, then look at the analysts recommendations, you wouldn't be adding what he stated. Nor would he state it (or shouldn't).

Does not compute.


Well, and didn't I tell you that I dropped doing soil analysis because it all read like gobledey-gook? ... I have no idea what method of analysis was used. None of it makes anymore sense now than then, no matter what method of conversion/calculation/whatever[!] used.

My arguement then, and now still, is that the best soil test you can use [imho] is to read your crops.

For veg, you want a basically neutral ph with a soil structure [tilth] that gives you sufficient to good drainage for wet years, and sufficient to good water retention for drought years - usually that is simply a matter of incorporating organic matter. Knowing the strengths and the weaknesses of your soil type helps to determine any additional steps [mulching perhaps] any individual crop may need. Manure feeds the soil, not the plants, so you basically have an all encompassing "slow release" of all essential nutrients which in turn enables plants to better utilize their own individual nutritional needs.

And that, in a nutshell, is the whole science.
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby kelly_m » May 18, 2012 6:53 am

Hydroponics are a science and require the white smocked crowd mumbling strange formulas, but gardening is supposed to be relaxing , back to nature type of thing , with all sorts of incantations, moon charts, and soothing music to calm the snap dragons and tiger lilies Nekkid rituals in the moonlight are optional , usually near harvest time


Exactly! Well except for the nekkid part....

See....with gardening...the tried and true is exactly that...the tried and true!

If a neighbour down the street has amazingly lush gardens for years, he's obviously doing something right. Maybe he was told to add eggshells to his gardens.

And the woman the other way...her beautifful gardens?? She learned from her mom who swore by chicken manure only.

It really is not rocket science. You look at a plant label....it says, full sun, slightly acidic soil.. Your not sure?? Buy 5 dollar test kit or add some pine needles....

That's what makes your plants grow the best. Those MiracleGro commercials are a crock!

Gardening if you want to look at it as a science, is not an instant results sort of thing.

You actually have to wait an entire season to see the results of you experiment. Then you record it. The next year you try something different......till you find the formula that works best for you.

What if something happens to you, or you end up on an extend trip, and your wife is left in charge??? Do you think she is going to checking to see if the N levels are optimal? Looking to see if the soil has too much sodium??? Water, Weed, Wait.......sometimes it's all you need!

besides....most of those home remedies and old wives tales???? They are not usually harmful to your plants gardens environment, so who says you can't try them to see?!

Phew.....rant over.....
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby Smitty » May 18, 2012 8:53 am

holy crap!!!!! whole lot of scientific jargon going on in this thread.

personally I'll just enjoy my gardens and stick to rules my Ma and folks here have tried and tested..even have my connections working on some 20 year old horse crap for me....tried,tested,works...my Mommy had beautiful gardens.

Smitty definitely not into gardening for the scientific studies of it
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby davefrombc » May 18, 2012 10:28 am

kelly_m wrote:Exactly! Well except for the nekkid part....

You mean it's mandatory in your garden ?
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Re: OGrubber (or anyone): soil analysis results - Help

Postby kelly_m » May 18, 2012 10:50 am

HAHAHA!

Nope.

non optional non mandatory non gonna happen!
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